Oil and Gas get massive subsidies every year, but a huge part of it are the very popular heating oil subsidies that keep people alive in the winter. Could these be reduced or replaced if instead the government gave money towards families purchasing electric heaters and spending their money on that?
Edit: USA but i assume the problem is not uniquely ours
Yes, actually. Up here in Canada we’ve been running subsidies for electric heat-exchangers (think like an air conditioner that can work in the opposite direction when it’s cold) for a couple years now. It is absolutely possible to offset oil subsidies with electric subsidies.
Yup, I’m almost through the process right now. $0 cost to me (they’re paying me a $250 bonus as well). My home is more than 30 years old, contrary to what another comment said about the feasibility of such a program in the US. It’s definitely possible in Canada!
Yes rebates on heat pumps, especially inexpensive air to air heat pumps drive adoption. They are efficient and now work in almost any climate.
mmm…so they claim. I know people with heat pumps who needed to install secondary heating. Entirely depends on house size.
Of course it depends on the house; just like you wouldn’t put a moped engine in a tank, a heat pump needs to be sized for the space to be heated (or cooled).
If you’re installing the right sized heat pump for the space you’re heating, they’re great. If you try to heat Buckingham Palace with a space heater, you’re going to have a bad time.
Using secondary heat for a few days or even a month a year is still a huge improvement, huge cost savings, and adds up to a massive reduction in annual carbon footprint, even if you’re using a fossil fuel furnace for secondary heat. People are crazy to not consider heat pumps as the primary heat option, especially if you already have central air conditioning, it’s basically the same machine, typically with the same connections and location, just physically somewhat bigger. Obviously it won’t work absolutely everywhere, but for the vast majority it’s a brilliant option and almost a drop-in replacement.
Resistive heating is a waste of energy. If you people can use your AC units as heat pumps, then we’re getting somewhere, if your grid can survive that
If the grid can run the AC it should be able to handle the heat pumps, arent they basically the same machine?
Functionally, yes. I mean, it needs to be the kind that have the reverse switch so you can switch it to heating in the winter, but it’s effectively the same power use.
An AC unit is a heat pump. The heat is pumped out.
The other thing we need to do is investigate why they charge so much to install heat pumps. I can buy a mini-split for around $1500 (depending on size), but they will charge me $4500 to install it - which seems unreasonable for the labor.
because it takes a lot of labor to install them.
that’s a low estimate. my estimate was $10,000 to install it for a single condo unit. I’ve seen many as high as 30-40K for mid-sized homes.
What do you think it should cost? $300?
the only places i’ve seen cheap installs are like, <5 housing with all the duct work already ready go and it was basally built with an upgrade in mind.
If a single person working alone can install them in a weekend - which happens all the time - a pro who has experience in doing this often should be able to do it for $1000 or less. It is a lot of labor but not more than $4000 worth. At least not the normal case.
ok, so why don’t you go around installing them for $1000?
seems like there is a big market for it, no?
The HVAC trades are run kind of like a mafia, at least in my part of the world. It’s a savage business, and it’s not because they’re competing on price.
No, because they cost too much. Heat Pump installation costs 30K in my city.
How are you going to make that affordable for poor folks w/o a massive subsidy? like 25K? much cheaper to give oil subsidies that cost a thousand bucks per family.
They already offer subsidies in my state, but they are like 5K, which means they benefit rich people who can afford the 30K price tag, and wait a year or two to see the rebate on their taxes. Just like with electric cars, overwhelming helps wealthy folks.
electric heaters are also horrible inefficient compared to fossil fuels. electric heating has much higher costs than oil and is far less efficient.
You’d need some sort of massive federal program to massively expand production and installation to bring costs down so they became affordable for average people.
Also a large number of homes can’t accept heat pumps at all. They are basically need to be on oil/gas heat, or be demolished/refurbed entirely for a heat pump system to work for them. Heat pump installation in my city is usually done during a gut renovation and typically you can’t install them in a home that is older than 20-30 years… which is the majority of the homes.
