Laws only work if there is a penalty for breaking them. Example: it is against the law not to release the Epstien files … but what is the penalty for breaking that law? Nothing was written in. The same for ICE, no one is checking them and they are staying out of Castle Law states.
It’s against the Constitution for insurrectionists to hold federal office. Yet here we are.
If they don’t respect the 4th amendment they get the second amendment
It isn’t legal, and the Constitution expliclty forbids this.
Welcome to fascism, did you think for some reason … words written on paper would… restrain them or matter in anyway?
They are fascists.
Their whole thing is … truth doesn’t exist, language is a weapon, not a means of reaching a mutual understanding.
They only understand one thing, and that is violent force, and the physical and societal logistics that make it possible.
If your game plan for resisting fascists is ‘but that’s illegal!’, you’ve already lost.
It’s an ideology that has proven to resort to violence and genocide rather than admit fault, let alone wrongdoing.
Laws only work one way now.
Ah, the classic, “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Francis M. Wilhoit
You guys haven’t really had rights for a while, by the sounds of it.
Black people been saying. everyone else just refuses to listen
(except for native americans, they been saying it the longest, they just don’t have the presence of messaging because they’ve been pushed so far into the margins)
Yeah I’m Aussie, and as soon as I learned about the Philly police firebombing a black neighbourhood, I knew you guys were supremely fucked.
And yeah Native Americans called it. I’ve learned that how a government and society treats a minority, is how they can eventually treat everyone. Or put another way, any rights you think you have over the member of society with the least rights is illusory.
yup. a society is only as just as it treats its most marginalized member. everyone else is just on a waiting list
Naw but we got Mountain Dew buckets, cheeseburgers, and AR-15s in high school! Wooohooo!!! Thank Jesus I’m not a pinko Commie!!!
The main question is how legal would it be to shoot at masked armed gang breaking into your home to kidnap you and your family without any judicial warrant.
Because that is exactly what the 2nd amendment is for
“Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”
I mean FFS, at this point ICE might kill you just for fun.
Immigration proceedings aren’t before a full court with a jury. It’s an administrative proceeding. So, there isn’t even the 12.
I’m pretty sure the trial involving the self defense against armed masked gangs would not be an immigration court.
Wow look at those big bois. I bet they go home, scream at their kids, then beat their wife and dog.
Kick the wife and fuck the dog.
This is very satisfying in a schadenfreude kind of way. I have been lectured to by Americans and those influenced by them for decades about the importance of their constitutional freedoms to shoot children and spread hate speech.
Some liberal western democracies don’t even have a codified constitution and still have better human rights and fairer government than the USA. Without a well functioning representative democracy with preferential or proportional voting, concentrating enormous executive power in a single tyrant without strong protections was always obviously exploitable.
I think a lot of them are still living in denial and think the good guys are going to come in and defend the constitution at the last minute. Hope they are right. It is one hell of a gamble for them and the rest of us.
It isn’t legal. And they haven’t changed the law. It’s just now their policy to ignore the law.
Right now they’re trying to “shock and awe” everyone into submission and compliance before the law catches up with them.
What do you want to bet at some point when ICE and Miller go too far that whistleblowers inside ICE dig up the lists of the recent hires and slip them off to the various states that they are active in, for the states to bring charges?
Good gravy, if I was working in an ICE office, you BET that surrpetitiously making backups of all the HR files documenting which people are going where, would be my main agenda.
Trump can pardon all he wants, but the states can still make these goose-stepping fuckers pay…
What do you want to bet at some point when ICE and Miller go too far that whistleblowers inside ICE dig up the lists of the recent hires and slip them off to the various states that they are active in, for the states to bring charges?
A short while back they murdered an innocent civilian by shooting her in the face and just recently kidnapped a 5 year old child.
If neither of those was “too far” then there is no “too far” for them. There will be no whistle blowers. ICE is evil.
There have already been whistleblowers.
I wouldn’t discount the possibility of whistleblowers. Even in Nazi Germany there were people who needed time to follow their conscience - those who only comply out of fear of personal consequences might still find the courage to do what is right.
I’m thinking it’s likely to happen once a point has been reached that the Trump Administration is distracted and/or weak enough that a whistleblower can come forwards and do so without ending up in a Federal prison. It’s not going to happen anytime soon, but once the cracks in the administration get too large to paint over…
Them rounding up people and denying them their fundamental rights was too far for me. I’ve tried organizing locally, with my friends, etc. to try and form a defensive community. No one seemed at all concerned. As well ICE isn’t openly operating in my area because Trump has basically admitted he’s doing this to blue states and cities. Mine is ruby red.
A lot of people who could do more are still doing the math between being complicit in this and ruining their lives, which is a real possibility if they act before securing some kind of support from the opposition or a resistance movement gets more organized. They’ll have to be convinced the risk is worth it and action could result real change before they go for it.
The problem isn’t necessarily finding people opposed to what’s happening, but making them believe that change can happen and they’ll be alright in the end if they join the resistance.
There was just a leak of 4500 ICE agents.
They are 100% going to leave these morons holding the bag. They are pulling shit like SHOWING them a hard copy of these orders and then keeping it so there is zero evidence linking their conduct back to their leadership. The buck stops with the dumbasses on the ground.
Dumbasses Indeed…
https://www.wired.com/story/ice-agents-are-doxing-themselves/
Man, “secret police” went from hyperbole to reality REALLY fucking fast.
There’s a bunch of proud boys and other criminals. The state should just adopt a mandatory policy of stopping any ice agents that they find unmasking them and verifying that they have clean records before letting them go or resting them.
Laws are only laws when they’re enforced. After decades of training law enforcement to hate and fear the average citizen, they don’t care to enforce laws that exist to protect those citizens.
And don’t tell me it’s always been that way. It’s a matter of degrees and there’s been a effort for decades to normalize police violence. It was bad, but it’s been engineered to be worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
We have ceded civil liberties when within 100 miles of a boarder, this happened decades ago and most politicians were ok with it because it didn’t make the news… just a quiet tool in the toolbox…
Well, the tool is now being used
Don’t airports count as borders as well?
I thought that it was specifically international airports. I heard they were doing ICE raids in the town outside of Pittsburgh International Airport (Robinson, PA). I haven’t seen any ICE personally in PGH but I’ve hear coworkers and friends talk about it.
Hey neighbor! They’re down here in wheeling, wv also. Wheeling sorta has an airport, but its for small, private planes only, I believe. Stay safe…
technically, no, but airport security workers of all flavors can refer individuals to ICE if they deem it necessary
True but this current development is even worse, as you may see that Minneapolis isn’t in that zone.
Issue is, this isn’t boarder patrol, this is immigration control. But international airports count as the 100 miles radius as well. And things like inland ports. So this map is incorrect on enforcement for this as well.
From my understanding no the border rule stops at customs.
Yes and we have customs at international airports we also have customs at inland ports we have customs at anywhere that rail receives and rail yards distribute.
Yes but the 100 mile rule does not apply to air ports. The exception stops at the point of entry and domestic flights are exempt from the border exceptions because people do not go through customs.
§ 287.1 Definitions. (a)
(1) External boundary. The term external boundary, as used in section 287(a)(3) of the Act, means the land boundaries and the territorial sea of the United States extending 12 nautical miles from the baselines of the United States determined in accordance with international law.
(2) Reasonable distance. The term reasonable distance, as used in section 287(a) (3) of the Act, means within 100 air miles from any external boundary of the United States or any shorter distance which may be fixed by the chief patrol agent for CBP, or the special agent in charge for ICE, or, so far as the power to board and search aircraft is concerned any distance fixed pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.
You’re forgetting the “Nobody is going to stop me” exemption. The constitution is just a piece of paper if nobody is willing to defend it.
The law only exists so far as it is enforced. Who will enforce the law against the state? Political power grows out the barrel of a gun.
You can tell them to piss off but they can beat and/or kill you and get away with it so words arent really gonna have much stopping power in this case.
We live in a society where might = right. If you have the firepower or other means to stop them from entering your private space then you have the right to do so.
You don’t really have the right to shoot anybody. (Depends on the state) But then you’d be accused of shooting a federal officer. Do you realy want that?
Most gun owners would prefer this to being whisked away to a mystery camp, yes.
The thing is, as a straight white middle-aged natural born citizen, there’s only one reason for the feds to ever kick in my door, and if that happens my life as a free man is over anyway. You fucking bet I’m taking as many of them with me as possible.
There is an Instagram trend (I’m told, I don’t browse) of people showing off the #nastiestangle
Spots in their homes or apartments they can get clean shots off at the door while remaining virtually invisible or well protected.
Please, for the love of god, do not post anything even remotely related to this on social media tied to you publicly. Your name, email, phone number, address, etc. will all be collected and recorded for when someone drops the charade and goes after dissidents.
When they come for your guns they will absolutely have a response to this. They know many people would rather die. They will kill you no matter what, but now what if they punish your family? What if they seize all of your assets and those of your nearest family? What if they financially ruin your loved ones after you die? Are you going to protect your weapons at the risk of hurting those you love? I’ll bet most don’t. What if they threaten to arrest your parents and send them to a labor camp?
When “they” are no longer subject to being voted out of office there is no longer any reason not to use maximum force to compel compliance for anything. They are showing us what they will do to those they deem to have no constitutional rights. Next anyone who protests will be labeled a terrorist and arrested. Anyone who fails to comply will be a terrorist. Anyone who is registered Democrat will be classified as an enemy of the state.
You will be bent into submission because you have weaknesses that they do not. Rattle your cage all you want. Dictators ALWAYS disarm the population.
Well then, guess you should just keep your head down and submit. All this “2nd amendment” and “don’t tread on me” talk was nothing but bluster. Maybe someone else will come invade the US to introduce democracy for you.
You’re still not getting it. This is a US government coup. They’re not following laws or the Constitution because they arent the US government. It’s the fucking Confederacy again.
Correct, so people need to stop expecting the rule of law to protect them and need to start protecting themselves.
Coward logic
It was the survivors who rebuilt Germany.
lol. lmao
Yeah… I get it
Yes i would absolutely prefer to die on my feet then live on my knees.
Most states, even ones with a duty to retreat, will still allow for using lethal force against home invaders, and even if not good luck finding a jury to convict someone on that kind of an incident.
You may not find a jury, but they have guns too
The mere threat of returned violence seems to work in dissuading the ICE agents from trying anything. Hence them making themselves scarce a few days ago when they saw a gentleman open carrying a semi-automatic (though unloaded) rifle.
Carrying it unloaded is stupid. They won’t wait to see if you have ammo before lighting you up if it came to it. Why leave yourself actually defenseless and yet a far more obvious target?
No one is going to sympathise with your obituary. “Well he looked like a deadly threat, which cops have been legally allowed to murder for decades, but he wasn’t actually a threat!”
“Fucking moron” would be the common reaction.
While ICE agents are pathetic cowards, pathetic cowards have murdered many, many people throughout history. Especially ones that look like a valid threat.
He’s not doing whatever he can to not get murdered. He’s doing whatever he can to expose ICE’s hypocrisy and prove that they are the lawless murderers.
By not loading his weapon he has made it clear that there is no circumstance in which he would take another’s life. Not even to defend his own.
Is he putting himself at grave risk? Yes. Absolutely.
Is there a way to accomplish the same thing without risk? No.
That man is a definitional hero.
Meh, a hero needs to be inarguably good at their intended goal. Anyone who doesn’t already agree with him is going to call him a dumbass, and rightfully so.
Do not appear to be a threat while not actually being a threat. Period. It’s almost as bad as being in danger while having zero defense.
You wouldn’t celebrate someone taking a walk in the woods with an empty bear mace can. This guy is doing the same thing: Going in to danger against wild animals with no actual defense.
Bears are not monsters, and there are much better ways of mitigating their threat. ICE and Donald cannot be mitigated. They must be met with overwhelming force. If you don’t have the option of overwhelming force, resort to subterfuge (if you are a hero).
This is a question of what happens during an attack. Not who is more likely to attack. For a bear, bear mace is an excellent choice. For ICE, if you already have a fucking gun, it being loaded is a first fucking step to that gun being useful at all.
If you see me out packing protecting my neighborhood, know that my rifle is NOT unloaded, that 40-round is full and ready to unleash hell, and I’ve got 4 more of them ready to go.
Nice
Depends on your alternatives I suppose. If your options are: “Go to a concentration camp without a name in some other country” or “get prosecuted for shooting the guy who was going to send you there and maybe end up in regular prison” or “die trying”, then maybe its not so clear.
Point of order, you will be accused posthumously of shooting a federal officer. You will not survive the exchange.
That’s not always true. Cops are notoriously bad shots and these ice agents are no better.
Just remember that most walls in modern american homes are made of nothing much stronger than plywood. In any situation you should return fire from good cover to try and avoid becoming a body.
There is no safe place to hide in a modern american home. The 2 most common rounds 9mm and NATO 5.56 will easily go through 5 or 6 layers of sheetrock or a piece of plywood and keep on going.
Do you want to risk it when you’re a father and want your kids to grow up with a dad? Or do you want to risk a stray bullet hitting a neighbor? Or do you want to just get arrested and probably released at some point with a really good case against the government that didn’t uphold the constitution?
I mean, you can weigh the pros and the cons yourself.
I was hardly suggesting that anyone shoot at ICE. I was pointing out that doing so would get you killed.
Nobody wants that, but unless you’re a bootlicker, you’re not going to let thugs barge into your home. I know I won’t, but I’m also going to do everything in my power to not let them in to begin with. Shooting intruders is the last resort. They’re no different than home invaders in my eyes.
I vaguely remember a story of a housecleaner getting shot for going to the wrong address and the shooter not even being charged because “I was scared” is a valid reason for killing someone ringing your doorbell in some states (sorry don’t remember the source). That sounds like a right to shoot anybody.
it is very much unconstitutional and definitely illegal. but you would need a functioning congress and a supreme court to rule on it or whatever
